Discipline - the Big Debate

In public, it looks like I have a really good little boy of two and a half.  He doesn’t shout, have public tantrums, break toys or tear books.  He generally tidies up his own toys, asks politely for things and positively loves being helpful – taking his sister’s full nappy bags to the bin is a favourite job!  From a very early age he has been very sensitive to being told off, and used to burst into tears if anyone was told off, even if it wasn’t him.  Just the word ‘no’ would have him in floods.  This may sound ideal, but it brings its own stresses, and I wanted to share it, to show how being naughty can take many forms.  He might not be aggressive, hyperactive or disobedient, the standard ‘naughty’ characteristics, but he can be frustratingly drippy, dopey and dozy, and he pushes the boundaries like any terrible two year old!

I believe that the child’s character really influences the parents’ disciplinary style, although we often assume that it’s the other way around; that our disciplinary style is what produces the personality of our children. In other words, that their behaviour is our fault! I don’t entirely believe this, although I do firmly believe that there is a lot you can do as parents to mediate between the personalities in your family and produce behaviour (from everyone!) that is generally acceptable.

My basic approach to discipline includes three rules: 1 - choose your battles, 2 - use positive language, and 3 - think before you open your mouth.  I forget most of my rules most days, but this is what I aim for!  

Choosing your battles means prioritising the behaviour you want most and ignoring the things that don’t bother you, even if you suspect that other people would choose different things. Your family – your priorities.  I am strict on politeness, respect and obedience near roads. I don’t get stressed about eating with fingers.

Using positive language means that rather than saying ‘don’t do that!’, you say what it is you want them to do.  Examples would be “please play over here” (instead of near that expensive vase), or “walk slowly, and stay close to Mummy please” (instead of tearing around near the road).  Phrases like “Behave yourself!”, or “Stop mucking around!” seem to me to be confusing to children.  They know you’re cross, but not why.

I barely use the word ‘no’, and save it for imminent danger or very disobedient behaviour that has already happened.  Saying no before they’ve done something, even if you think they’re just about to, tends to turn it into a game.  Having said that, you have to be prepared to say ‘no’ when you need to.  Don’t be scared of your child’s reaction.  Lots of praise for the good behaviour is also very important.

The hardest rule is number three.  That means making sure you’re being consistent and realistic and are not just having a stroppy day yourself.  It also means thinking about how to articulate what you want to happen,  remembering to follow your own rules and apologising when you’re wrong.  Obviously, when danger or violence threatens, I pile in yelling; but otherwise, a deep breath first always helps.
I do believe that this approach means my son generally wants to make me happy, and knows how to do it.  However, I am well aware that if he were a tougher cookie, my methods would not be enough to put him off bad behaviour (his baby sister is clearly made of sterner stuff, and is going to put me to a bigger challenge!).  My son is a sensitive and quiet lad, and his parents are generally mild and quiet too!  We were never going to develop a loud parenting style, it wouldn’t feel comfortable for any of us. This is why I don’t criticise other parenting styles – other families are made up of different personalities, and different tactics would work better.

So: is my little Paragon ever naughty!?  Well, he’s two and a half, so obviously he’s naughty dozens of times a day! He stalls and dawdles when we’re in a hurry to get out of the door, he dances around just out of reach when we’re getting him dressed, and he pretends he can’t hear me when I ask him to come for a meal, to name but three regular occurrences.  When any desires are thwarted he makes a big fuss and he gets furiously tearful when he can’t manage something himself.  These all have me tearing my hair out every day.  But, when I think about it (later, with a glass of wine!), I realise that he’s just like his Dad and me.  He’s trying to avoid conflict and a big row, but still wants to have a bit of control over his own life.  Put yourself in your child’s shoes once in a while – maybe it’s tougher being them than you might think!

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My eldest son is fairly easy to discipline.  He is a sensitive soul and, from the earliest age, responded to a firm ‘no’.  He disliked being told off and would generally stop the offending action.  Now, at the age of three and a half, he still responds to ‘no’ but, on those occasions when a verbal reprimand is not enough, a few minutes on the ‘naughty step’ or the threat of no CBeebies or other treat, usually brings him in to line.

My youngest son, aged two, has us tearing our hair out with frustration!  A firm ‘no’ elicits nothing more than a cheeky grin.  The naughty step is ineffective as he refuses to stay there unless guarded which defeats the purpose of time out.  He doesn’t yet understand cause and effect so cannot associate the denial of a treat in the future with his actions now.  Any punishment has to be immediate so that he knows it relates to what he has just done.  Confining him to his room for time out is no good as he will wreak havoc until released, on more than one occasion causing actual damage rather than just mess.  We have resorted to a smack on the hand or leg for certain antisocial behaviour, such as throwing, but he seems impervious to that too.  It is not a punishment I like to use, chiefly because it seems contradictory to impress upon my sons that hitting is not acceptable while using it, even in a very controlled way, as a punishment.  If it were effective with Number Two, I might be inclined to overcome my reservations and continue but I have to say it has had no effect so far.  Basically, he has us stumped. 

On a more positive note, we do try to raise our children by giving them a good example of behaviour and, so far, it seems to be paying off.  We always say please and thank you to each other and to the boys and their manners are already extremely good (they’ve mastered saying ‘pardon me’ after breaking wind too but I’m not admitting to teaching by example on that one).  I encourage them to ‘help’ with small tasks, such as taking dirty dishes to the kitchen after meals and helping to carry shopping in from the car (and my three year old is actually far more capable of operating the washing machine and dishwasher than my husband).

I guess the point I am trying to contribute to this debate is that the way you discipline will depend largely on the individual child.  Some children respond to one method while that same method will have no effect on a different child.  However you choose to deal with the naughtiness and disobedience, you need to set a positive example so they know what they’re aiming for.  As for my second son, I will be reading the rest of this debate with avid interest in the hope of finding some answers!

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Whatever you do, be consistent.  There is no point punishing a behaviour one day, then letting it go the next.  Also, make sure you mean no before you say it.  If you back down once, they will remember forever and will keep pushing and pushing until you give in.

 

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For me, as far as discipline goes, less is more.  I say as little as I think I can possibly get away with, in the hopes that what I do say will have more impact.  In addition, throughout my daughter's  22 months so far, I have tried always bear in mind that she is very, very young, and, until recently, has not really had much understanding of what naughtiness and disobedience is. 

I aim to speak quietly, come down to her level, and stick to my guns.  I never give in, which sounds harsh, but it has shown her so far that there is no point in tears or whining.  I hope that to teach her politeness by example, I never ask her to do anything without saying 'please' myself, and she's getting there!

From 15 to 20 months has been the biggest challenge so far.  There was a lot of physical struggling over getting dressed, nappy changing, getting in the car seat, getting in the buggy, etc.  I always held her very firmly, did not talk, and carried on with the task without letting her disrupt me. There were also tantrums involving fairly hysterical crying and lying face down on the floor.  Although I really felt for my daughter, believing the cause of these to be frustration, rather than 'naughtiness', I just completely ignored them.  All of a sudden, at around 20 months a lovely, co-operative, smiley little girl emerged again. 

I believe (maybe naively!) that overall, a child will want to maintain a good relationship with the person that she loves and relies upon, and so in the end they will behave rather than risk the relationship.  I also do appreciate that my discipline methods will change as my daughter gets older (she's coming up to the 'terrible twos' for a start!), during times of stress, and if we have other children. 

 

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I imagine I'm on the other side from most contributors on this subject.  It's difficult to know whether discipline crushes the free spirit inside children or sets the foundation for respect, responsibility and manners. I don't want to stop my child from experiencing the sensation of mashed food between his fingers or how it feels to fingerpaint the table with milk, but there comes a time when shouting NOOOO or banging toys can only be ignored so much.  It is at that point that I start with DO NOT (and always PLEASE).  I ask if he wants mummy to get cross (to which he usually answers no and stops), and after that I warn him that a slap is imminent if he carries on.  I think that's pretty fair build up.  If he's still doing it, well…

I think also the punishment has to fit the crime.  Some things kids just do because they're kids, and whilst some of this behaviour should be tolerated, some should not, in my opinion.  Biting people, hitting people for ANY reason, kicking, etc.  My child knows full well the firm stand I take on these issues, and is not usually a repeat offender.

I would like to think I fall somewhere between "whatever you want to do" and "I'll send you to the moon off the end of my boot."  You do what you think is right at the time.  It's only later that you see the results.

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My fiancé and I both come from families where bottom smacking was considered a reasonable “last resort” after a warning and we turned out as reasonably rounded, stable individuals who have good relationships with our parents!
We would rather use time-outs and other non-physical discipline wherever possible but  we have decided that we will also use a light smack on the bottom or hand as a last resort with our own child until she is old to reason with.

 

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I have given the topic of discipline some thought but have not actually had much practice as my son is only 18 months old and I am not sure you can call his unwanted behaviour 'naughty' as such.  Of course we have had tantrums and touching and doing things he shouldn’t.  We also have playing up at meal times.  So far, disciplining mainly involves the word 'no'.  Of course, he laughs and carries on doing the prohibited action!  At the moment, I try to continue saying 'no' firmly and, if he still laughs, I move him away.  He then often has a tantrum and I just ignore him,  trying not to give attention for unwelcome behaviour.

After watching many hours of 'House of Tiny Tearaways' and 'Little Angels', I really believe the positive parenting technique does have good results and it is certainly one I am going to try to develop as my son grows older and rather more naughty.  I can, however, see that it might be harder to carry out as my gut instinct is to 'react' to bad behaviour.  I do make an effort to praise my son at every opportunity so, as he gets older, I hope he notices this and misses it when he behaves badly.

I have to say the more traditional disciplining techniques of my childhood involving lots of 'wait until your father gets home', shouting and the odd gentle smack certainly did me no harm and I know right from wrong and have not been in prison!  My instant reaction is to behave in thesame way towards my son but I have decided that I am not sure this is the most effective method of discipline (only time will tell...) so I think I am going to have to discipline myself as much as my son.

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I don’t think that I’m the best person to contribute to this debate as, so far, very few of my methods of discipline seem to have been successful!  Of course, different types of discipline are called for depending on the ‘crime’ but perhaps, just maybe, some of you may do better than me, if you ever feel inclined to try any of these out.

My child is what you could call ‘challenging’ so I do feel that I have test-driven the full range of  strategies in an attempt to discipline.  Some methods are my own, some are from friends and colleagues and some are from ‘professionals’.  I do not recommend all of the below!

•  Naughty steps/chairs etc, well yes, but not for me, I’m afraid.  My child will not remain in one place for more than one second, no matter how many times they are put there.
  
• Gentle reasoning:  occasionally this may work.
  
• Taking away of favourite toys/films etc.  Nope, doesn’t care, has too many toys anyway.  Although, to be fair, the threat of a toy being confiscated has sometimes worked if caught before complete hysteria has set in.
  
• Sticker Charts.  Ah the old favourite. What a wonderful invention.  I know some people swear by them but perhaps my child is still a bit too young.  I think the ‘time’ aspect on these are tricky.  A whole day or even half day for a week is a heck of a long time to for a child to earn stickers.  Perhaps I’ll try this again in the future.
  
• Time out in bedroom/other room.  Oh dear.  Not if you want a door/ room left in one piece!   Someone  suggested I use a large egg timer as a visual aid for time out/ cooling down, which I think could be a good idea and something I will try, when I can get hold of a large egg timer.
  
• Shouting/losing temper.   Probably not a good idea.
  
•  Putting child up for adoption.  Maybe a bit extreme, but worth considering.
  
•  Holding child tightly until they calm down.   This is often effective especially if they are displaying dangerous behaviour.
• Ignoring bad behaviour and praising good.  This one I do think can work, especially if you have another child to focus on and praise, whilst taking absolutely no notice of the other child’s tantrum (or whatever).  They soon feel left out and what to join in with the ‘fun’ activity their sibling and mother are enjoying together.
  
  
• Bribery.  This does work for me!  If you are good you can have….
• Removing child from an enjoyable experience when they are misbehaving.  For example, taking them away from the farm if they are constantly running off out of sight.  This works if you give them one or two chances and they know you are serious. You must always be ready to carry out your threat even if it ruins everyone else’s day out.

I also think you must always be consistent with what ever type of discipline you choose to employ.  Perhaps that’s why my methods have not always been effective; I’ve tried too many things before giving any one a proper chance to actually work?  And at the end of a tough day when you are absolutely shattered, and not always at your most rational, it can sometimes be easier to just give in.  Battling all day long is hard work and tomorrow is always another day.  We’re not all Supernanny, but we try our best.

 

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